Talking T Gauge

DanMacK · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: T gauge for Zn2?

I've been thinking of whether T gauge could be adapted for 2 foot gauge in Z scale. The discrepancy (it actually scales out to about 30"), would be the same as the allowances made by On30 and HOn30 modelers.

European locomotives offer a viable prototype for 2' and similar gauged trains. Similar prototypes could be adapted to North American prototype locos as well.

Given the advances by the Nn18 fraternity, can Zn2 be that far behind?
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Regards,
Dan MacKellar

Sam K · Joined: 11 Nov 2008 Posts: 14 Location: Manchester, UK

AndyA · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 33 Location: Southampton, UK

There are some rather nice 760mm diesels on the Young Pioneers Railway in the hills above Budapest, for example.

Since there were hundreds of these railways, surplus stock could plausibly have been bought by virtually any industrial outfit in the former east. Years ago I did a Gilpin Gold Tram four axle diesel in HO9, by cutting an HO bodyshell to fit an N chassis. Similar butchery here might yield a shell that'll just clip over the Eishindo body.

For the pioneer railway itself, David's folded loop with about a thousand of Ian's trees would work quite well. It's almost tempting. Smile

- - -

EDIT: I must stop getting distracted. Firstly the gauge is definitely 760mm. Then Sue pointed out that the railway (now officially the "Children's Railway" has a couple of railcars as well, though we didn't see them and I don't want to breach copyright by scanning the images from the calendar we bought, so I went looking for images online. Didn't find any but did find that there are about half a dozen 760mm forestry railways extant. Hmmm, what will Sue say if I suggest another trip?

- - -

The railway is a 'must visit' for any railfan staying in Budapest, and sellable to non-railfans in the area on the basis that the woods at the far end are a favourite picnic spot for the locals, with a splendid viewing tower. Great walking as well. They also have a steamer - look for 'heritage train'. When I'd run out of Hungarian and the young girl selling tickets had run out of English, a colleague was summoned who managed a creditable mime of a steam engine, complete with chuffing noises, at which everyone dissolved into giggles.

regards
Andy A

B 67 · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject:

Hmmm! Gives me ideas for a 762mm gauge line (2'6") in Taiwan. Taiwan once had many hundreds of miles / kilometres of 762mm gauge lines for sugarcane - almost all gone today. There were also a number of forestry railways, the best known of which is the Alishan Railway. I say is, because it still exists with daily passenger trains.

Originally built by the Japanese for Cyprus logging, it had a fleet of Shay locos, most of which still survive, plinthed in parks and museums around Taiwan - with one at Australia's Puffing Billy Railway.

Fortunately 2 or 3 Shays are retained in operating condition. Not that I've ever seen them run - yet. Here's one of the static ones near the Alishan railway.

I don't fancy trying to model one of those in Zn2½.

Today, the line uses diesels, which might be easier to adapt from the Eishindo mechanisms, albeit without the outside cranks and siderods.

Scenically, the line has some exciting features to model. Apart from a couple of zig-zag or switchback sections, amongst the 50 or so tunnels and 100+ bridges there is an amazing spiral section where the line winds around a mountain 3 times to gain height.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Tunnel114.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alishan_Forest_Railway

The line rises from 30m to 2216m in around 75km, starting in tropical climate and ending in alpine climate. Maximum grade is 6.26% - or about 1 in 16, adhesion worked. Not that such grades should matter to T gauge.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/10772640
The cars in the background of this photo are on level track. Shocked

Apart from the wiki image of the spiral map, these images are my own.
See also my own site.
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Darren,
Stratford,
Australia.

AndyA · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 33 Location: Southampton, UK

Good to know that the Alishan is still running. I had assumed that it was long gone.

Again, much food for thought. And the diesel looks like an easier build than the Hungarian one (if you ignore the side-rods). I may have a go at a mock-up to see whether I can handle Z scale any better than T.

This is getting a bit like the Gn15 forum - too many ideas and not enough time. Smile

regards
Andy A

B 67 · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:47 am Post subject:

I try to stay away from the Gn15 forum because of that. I have too many modelling interests in various scales from T to 5" gauge.

The Alishan railway has recently been privatised - amongst a bit of protest apparently. If you're ever in Taiwan, it is a "must do". Wink

By the way, I also assumed it was long gone. If not for the Shay that came from the line to Australia, I'd probably never have heard of the line before first going to Taiwan in 2002. My wife is from the area and when we first met she took me for a ride on the line. I was first surprised to find it still existed and was further surprised by what an incredible line it is. Most of the traffic on it today is tourists, but locals in the mountains do use it as well. Seems to be a small amount of freight traffic too.

There are two services each way every day. The timetable is quite odd in that one train departs from the tropical plains to climb the mountain around 9:30am, with the second departing around 1pm. Yet the two downhill services depart within 20 minutes of one another about 1:20 and 1:40pm. The trip takes a bit over 3 hours. This means if you want to go both ways the same day, you have less than an hour at the top - unless you take a bus back. I did it once and would NEVER do it again. Shocked

I suspect the timetable is intended to make people stay at one of the many hotels at Alishan. Should you do this, it's almost mandatory to get up pre-dawn and ride another train to Chushan for the sunrise viewing and the "Sea of Clouds" - which is apparently quite spectacular. It wasn't when I went as the sea level was too high - in other words, foggy. The mountain is so high that the clouds are usually below the viewing area and the rising sun lights them up, with various peaks poking through like islands in the sea of cloud.
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Darren,
Stratford,
Australia.

ymvdveen · Joined: 23 Nov 2008 Posts: 1 Location: Netherlands

In Europe there's already a convention for narrow Gauge in Z-scale.
Like in other scales we talk about Z, Zm and Zf.
Zf stands for industrial narrow gauge 500-600 mm.
http://www.modeba.de/bb.html

Static models for Zf and railsets with non-functional switches are available at Saller, Germany. Saller can be ordered at:
http://www.zundmeer.de/html/sallera.html

In the eighties Railex also produced a small set with a diesel loc, tippers and a railset incl. non-functional switches.

My interest in T Gauge is related to my wish to have a functional narrow gauge railroad on my (future) Dutch module with a brickyard based on:
http://www.dewerklust.nl/

Best,
Ysbrand
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Good things come small

AndyA · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 33 Location: Southampton, UK

I finished the artwork for the Buda 760mm diesel over the weekend and intend to try an assembly this evening. Why did it take so long? As with a recent posting on the standard gauge "modelling" list, I discovered that the problem is the hood width and running boards. Basically, for standard gauge, 760mm or Nn18, the rule of thumb is that the overall width shouldn't much exceed three times gauge, in this case 9mm. This requires much fiddling with the cab on my selected prototype to get (in this case) forward looking windows believable.

Of course, when I logged onto the Gn15 list after finishing and printing it, someone had posted a link about equivalent stock from the former Yugoslavia.

http://www.angelfire.com/co3/drustvo/Cira/Cira.html

Halfway down is a lower-hood diesel which would be much easier to do. Had I looked carefully at the Alishan loco picture when I ran into trouble...

I'll post a pic of the assembled mock-up just as soon as I can get one worth photographing. Smile

regards
Andy A

David K Smith · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:34 am Post subject:

Good grief, the rodding and valve gear on some of those locos is enough to make your head spin...
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—David

http://www.t-gauge.net/
http://1-450.blogspot.com/

AndyA · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 33 Location: Southampton, UK

It does seem to me that the "1/32 Garden Railway" set has potential (or at least the loco has) for a 'bash into something resembling the Hungarian or Yugoslavian 760mm stock.Probably be easier to model log wagons on the ride-on coaches rather than 760mm tourist coaches. And it would be a shame to throw so much of the stuff away. But it's a start, I guess.

Wonder what the price will be?

regards
Andy A