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David Colley
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 7
Location: uk
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Aww, man. Anyone any ideas for the circuit diagram for the controller? Maybe we can have a go ourselves untill we can get the "off shelf" item...
That is really slow, I'd love to run my trains that slow...
As for the Third gen. WOW! Just what it needs, a worm to slow the whole lot down! |
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rmyers
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 73
Location: Evanston, IL USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | It will be released together with the 3rd generation train which is used a
worm gear.("multi car control on the same track" function may be installed.) |
Oh, frabjous day! PWM and worm gear drive. The horizon is beginning to look like real model railroading!
| Quote: | | Is this technology used by other model railway manufacturuers? |
Most definitely yes. For example MRC puts a PWM signal at a fixed high voltage mixed with a variable voltage DC for the output of most of its power packs. DCC also uses PWM to provide motor voltage. Change the duty cycle to change the effective voltage.
DCC should be practical with T. TCS is working on a decoder for Z hood units that is only 1/4" (6.35mm) wide. That's not too far away from a T car body. The current 103 train sets have plenty of length to rearrange things in.
Bob |
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David K Smith
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 435
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| rmyers wrote: | | Quote: | | Is this technology used by other model railway manufacturuers? |
Most definitely yes. For example MRC puts a PWM signal at a fixed high voltage mixed with a variable voltage DC for the output of most of its power packs. DCC also uses PWM to provide motor voltage. Change the duty cycle to change the effective voltage.
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Interesting. MRC must have made some major improvements since I last had any of their packs. Back then (1970s), their best pulse packs had no electronics to speak of--they were dirt simple.
_________________
—David
http://www.t-gauge.net/
http://1-450.blogspot.com/ |
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victorian t gauge
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 109
Location: traralgon, victoria, australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | DCC also uses PWM to provide motor voltage. |
ohh?? hmmm...  all the guys have been urging me to go DCC with my VR n scale, but i have been content with DC. apart from the other digital advantages, i had not realised it could make the locos run slower and smother. after looking at the diagram, only now do i understand how pulse power works. impressive.[/quote] |
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rmyers
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 73
Location: Evanston, IL USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| victorian t gauge wrote: | | Quote: | | DCC also uses PWM to provide motor voltage. |
ohh?? hmmm... all the guys have been urging me to go DCC with my VR n scale, but i have been content with DC. apart from the other digital advantages, i had not realised it could make the locos run slower and smother. after looking at the diagram, only now do i understand how pulse power works. impressive. |
[/quote]
I realize it is off topic here, but as a N/DCCer, DCC has big advantages in N --
The higher constant voltage at the tracks gives better contact than the voltage you are usually running your train on.
Most N equipment runs too fast at max anyway, and with DCC you can set a maximum.
You can mu brands with different motor/drive properties by adjusting DCC configuration.
However, rule number one is that you shouldn't expect it to make your equipment run better. Slower and smoother is possible, depending on what you are currently using as a cab.
Bob |
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rmyers
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 73
Location: Evanston, IL USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| David Colley wrote: | Aww, man. Anyone any ideas for the circuit diagram for the controller? Maybe we can have a go ourselves untill we can get the "off shelf" item...
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Search elsewhere on the forum. There has been previous discussion of PWM. I know that I posted a link to a schematic.
Bob |
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David K Smith
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 435
Location: New Jersey, USA
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zomer
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 124
Location: Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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I want one!! I want one!! I want one!! I want one!! I want one!!!!!
When????
How much........meh dont care!!!
I want one!! That is AAAMMAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZIINNGGGGGGGG!!!!!
| victorian t gauge wrote: | | never say never????? ILL HAVE A LIVE VR STEAM R CLASS please!!!! |
Imagine a T gauge steam locomotive travelling that slow!!!
Ddddrrrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooll!!!
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Victorian T Gauge Blog
http://www.victorian-tgauge.blogspot.com/ |
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B 67
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 277
Location: Stratford, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| zomer wrote: | I want one!! I want one!! I want one!! I want one!! I want one!!!!!
When????
How much........meh dont care!!!
I want one!! That is AAAMMAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZIINNGGGGGGGG!!!!!
| victorian t gauge wrote: | | never say never????? ILL HAVE A LIVE VR STEAM R CLASS please!!!! |
Imagine a T gauge steam locomotive travelling that slow!!!
Ddddrrrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooll!!! |
Sorry, I missed that. Could you please register your interest, if you're in the slightest way inclined to order one of these when they are ready. 
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Darren,
Stratford,
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zomer
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 124
Location: Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Well I said "I want one" 6 times.......does that mean I really want one or just want 6 of them . Im gonna go with I REALLY WANT 6 OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any idea of when theyre expected to arrive?
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Victorian T Gauge Blog
http://www.victorian-tgauge.blogspot.com/ |
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trainspotter-usa
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 315
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| zomer wrote: | Well I said "I want one" 6 times.......does that mean I really want one or just want 6 of them . Im gonna go with I REALLY WANT 6 OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any idea of when theyre expected to arrive? |
I'll give it three years...
Ian
_________________
I CAN see how cool this stuff is!!!
http://more-t-please.blogspot.com/ |
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B 67
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 277
Location: Stratford, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| trainspotter-usa wrote: | | zomer wrote: | Well I said "I want one" 6 times.......does that mean I really want one or just want 6 of them . Im gonna go with I REALLY WANT 6 OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any idea of when theyre expected to arrive? |
I'll give it three years...
Ian |
This is Eishindo we're talking about. 3 months is more like it. 
Considering the obvious improvement to the running of their trains, I'm sure they want this out as soon as possible.
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Darren,
Stratford,
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AndyA
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Southampton, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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There are at least three techniques out there that can reasonably be called 'pulse'. Pulse Width Modulation and adding pulses on to variable DC voltage have already been described. The third is Pulse Frequency Modulation, where the width of the 'on' pulses remains constant, but the width of the 'off' pulses varies.
For anyone who's interested, the latter normally requires fewer software instructions on a PIC (Programmable Interface Controller) and thus maens that you may get away with a cheaper device; the other two normally require simpler circuits for non-software solutions. In all three cases the aim is to use full-power pulses to overcome the resistance (physical and electrical) of the motor and the mechanism, giving, as the videos show, superior slow running.
Which works best depends to an extent on the motor. The PFM software I wrote for my Lego monorail works beautifully in that situation, starting up from zero and running up to line-speed with a single button-press. Try driving the motor from an R/C car with it and it's not so good, whereas the posh full PWM circuitry intended for said car works brilliantly. Connect either to a cheap Taiwanese motor from a plastic toy train (the Gn15 list has a lot to answer for  ) and it'll shake itself to bits fairly quickly; a 'cheap' pulse power unit works best.
Since I've never seen T in the flesh - I'm waiting for the points and 'street tram' - I can't speak from experience, but the following:
| Quote: | | -Power Box (modified for this demo) for power adjuster during OFF time,hence you can see the max volume makes the max speed as well as max volume of standard power box. |
from Darren's quote of Hirai-san's posting, suggests to me that the box in question is variable DC plus variable duty-cycle PWM, which makes pretty good sense to me.
regards
Andy A |
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David K Smith
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 435
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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In addition to what Andy describes, there's also a sophisticated version of PWM that allows a combination of variable pulse width and frequency. Each different motor responds differently to the duration and frequency of pulses owing to their moment of inertia, mechanical load, electrical resistance and load, etc., etc. Given the high variability in the quality of the T Gauge mechanisms, plus the the fact that, out of necessity, Eishindo is working very close to the limits of each component, the ideal combination of electronic characteristics will vary from one train to another.
What Eishindo is doing is finding a "happy medium" for the sake of economy, and this makes perfect sense. But for those with an appetite for experimentation and top performance, one needs to be able to change all three parameters (pulse width, frequency, and DC component) to obtain the very best performance from any given motor/mechanism.
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—David
http://www.t-gauge.net/
http://1-450.blogspot.com/ |
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